Speaking Cinema
An Interview with James Norton
photography and interview by Bryan Adams
A country bumpkin by his own admission, James Norton's entry into city life is delightfully unsuspecting when taking into account his current success. Reflecting upon his stint selling Christmas trees, nostalgia becomes a segue into his acting career. From forgotten lines to getting into character in his local supermarket, Norton exudes an easy charm, one which has seen him play a wonderfully diverse array of characters; window cleaners, mafia members and aristocrats to name a few. Upbeat in spite of the current climate, Norton's withdrawal from the theatre is clear, "there's something so special about being in that space and about sharing the same pheromones and atmosphere", in spite of its absence the actor has kept himself busy, his dabbling with charcoal and drawing, though not public-ready, a worthy distraction. Outspoken on the role of TV and cinema, particularly in our current time, Norton frames the industry as a "mobilizing force", this description an indication of his own drive and momentum.
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Bryan Adams: Apparently one of your first jobs was selling Christmas trees?
James Norton: Yes, it was indeed. I have even sold Samantha Morton a Christmas tree!
BA: You sold Samantha Morton a Christmas tree?!
JN: Yes, I really did. I was working at a place called "The Christmas Forest" when I was at drama school - obviously it was around Christmas time and it was close to where I lived so I would cycle down to this Christmas tree shop.
BA: Whereabout was this?
JN: It wasn't just in one place, as I moved around. I did a lot of Christmas tree selling, so back then I knew quite a lot about Christmas trees. There was a time when I could have told you exactly the type of fir, which part of the world it was coming from or how quickly the needles will fall off...
BA: How old were you?
JN: 22 and hungover all the time, it was Christmas time after all! It was lovely to work in this kind of shop because you witness so much joy in those places. You have these families, people like Samantha Morton and her family turning up and the kids just become wide eyed by the prospect of buying a Christmas tree. The problem is, I was a young drunk actor who was trying to make some money to get me through drama school, but it was lovely - such a fun time. I moved to London as a country bumpkin and ended up in the city selling trees.
BA: Here's a serious question, you've got so many upcoming projects - Things Heard & Seen, Nowhere Special, The Nevers, Heart of Darkness, Chasing Agent Freegard - it must be quite surreal to be so busy at a time like this?
JN: Yeah [Laughs] - that's funny coming from you, as you are probably the busiest man I've ever met!
BA: Wait... I'm unemployed now thanks to Covid-19.
JN: I am very aware of how lucky I am right now. I understand that Covid-19 brought a lot of difficulties for a lot of people.
BA: That's just a lot of work!
JN: A lot of that was stuff that was filmed way before Covid started here and some of it is yet to be shot. I think one thing where I'm very lucky is that I have a production company so we've been developing a slate throughout lockdown, so I was able to live a nine to five schedule. Monday to Friday, which was a novelty and actually I loved it. Finally I was able to implement a better routine where I could predict my week and have a bit of a structure, so yeah it is a lucky time. I think any actor whenever they're in work counts himself extremely lucky, particularly right now so I'm very mindful of that.
BA: How did it feel making the classic Little Women? Did it feel like there was a heightened sense of expectation? Was it a book you grew up reading?
JN: No, actually it wasn't a book I grew up reading. There was a huge sense of expectation, luckily it wasn't really on my shoulders. My role in the film, and off camera, was to sort of pay witness to these extraordinary female artists - Greta Gerwig, Meryl Streep, Laura Dern - it was insane and it was the guy's turn to pay tribute to them and witness their brilliance. So I spent a lot of my scenes there standing in the background, not really having any lines, and I couldn't quite believe how I'd ended up there. For me, that was a huge jump to be amongst those actors, with Greta directing, and also I think it was only during the time of filming I was made aware of how special that book is and of the responsibility that we had. In England it doesn't have as much currency, but over there in the US of course it does.
BA: I can see how in America it holds more weight.
JN: Also, what was wonderful about that book, that I didn't realize until afterward, because of Greta's interpretation of it and the fact that they used these amazing young women - Saoirse Ronan, Florence Pugh and Emma Watson, is the currency and the power it has with a generation of young women all aspiring to be writers or doctors or what ever they aim to be. Currently, there is so much energy behind various movements like "Me Too" and to be part of such a positive offering towards that particular conversation around feminism was a wonderful thing, an I didn't realize the power it had until afterward. So credit to Greta and of course women like Meryl - it was a real pleasure.
BA: Does working on a series rather than a film have an impact on the way you work?
JN: Interesting - not so much in the moment, the actual sacred space of telling a story is the same whether it would be on the stage, a film set or a TV set - it is all kind of the same craft I guess and lots of people often tend to compare theatre to film. Ultimately, although the structure and framework is different, the actual essence is the same. The difference between film and TV shows is that you get the kind of power and privilege of being in that head space for six or seven hours and by the end of the series it becomes kind of second nature, you get this split personality.
BA: Any favourite series you had during lockdown?
JN: Oh my gosh, I really enjoyed the series Unorthodox - did you see that on Netflix?
BA: Yes, I loved it.
JN: We loved that, my girlfriend and I watched it together and my girlfriend didn't realize at first that it was only four episodes - we thought it was a 12 episode series, so quite a surprise when we got to episode five which of course didn't exist!
BA: Did you watch Fauda?
JN: No, but I have heard of it before. It is this Israeli series - is that brilliant?
BA: I thought it was really good and my other binge watch was Peaky Blinders of course.
JN: You know what? I actually have to admit here that I have never even watched an episode of Peaky Blinders.
BA: Wow what?!
JN: The show is so big, so that is quite bad isn't it?
BA: That was my whole lockdown [Laughs].
JN: Was it - it was the show that you binged?
BA: I immediately cut my hair like Cillian Murphy.
JN: I wish I had watched it, I think it is one of those ones that I kind of look forward to watching, but never got around to doing so. There's a couple of these, you there's just so much good content out there. There are gaping holes in my pop cultural knowledge. I actually got into drawing during lockdown, I've never drawn and my girlfriend and I started with charcoal.
BA: We want to see this.
JN: No, no, no, believe me you don't - there's no way! [Laughs]
BA: I think during quarantine particularly people have realized the value and art of good TV & film, what do you think the screen has to offer at a time like this?
JN: Yeah, it's interesting. I read recently someone saying how we don't save lives in the film industry. My sister is a doctor, so I always have this conversation when we go back home where she's telling my Mum and Dad about how she and her husband, who is also a doctor, saved three lives today and me in comparison telling them that "I just put on some beautiful clothes and flounced around". The difference is while people in the entertainment business don't save lives, we make life more palatable and easier; we remind people what life is worth living for, in a certain way. I think we definitely need entertainment, beyond the mediums of TV and film, beyond just being a form of escapism and a reassuring sanctuary space to kind of rush to when life gets crappy. As we already know, it can be an incredible mobilizing force and some of the work I've done, which I am prodest of, has really had an impact. Again, I am not going to claim I am overly worthy, I am an actor, not a doctor, but with McMafia we achieved a panel in Parliament based on anti-corruption and now the press often refers to the "McMafia Law" so I am proud and pleased. There's always a space for the small screen.
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"Currently, there is so much energy behind various movements like 'Me Too' and to be part of such a positive offering towards that particular conversation around feminism was a wonderful thing, and I didn't really realize the power it had until afterwards. So credit to Greta and of course women like Meryl - it was a real pleasure."
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BA: What do you think of the plans of the government cuts in the arts in the UK?
JN: I don't understand it, supporting the arts and culture is so important. It is a development which is very heart-breaking to see.
BA: Is it affecting you in any way?
JN: At the moment it is difficult to gauge how it's going to affect me, it's going to affect everyone; no doubt it already is and I have friends, particularly in theatre who have been put on furlough or made redundant and that's the future of theatre. Similarly in the field of live music, friends of mine who are DJs or artists who are recording album after album in the lockdown and they have no way of exhibiting it.
BA: Yeah that's right.
JN: It's terrifying. It is a nerve racking time and that fallout will obvious affect everyone in the industry. For myself with my production company and a foothold in film and TV, which is easier to recover...
BA: ...and everything has to wait.
JN: Yep - we are waiting. We're shooting this TV show which has now taken about two years to shoot. It took us quite a long time to shoot this one series because of all the interruptions.
BA: So theater, TV, cinema - is there one you prefer?
JN: Funny, I get asked that question a lot. Again on one level inhabiting another headspace, immersing yourself in that other human being and letting that take hold and sharing it with other people, is the same craft in every form. There's something, again it sounds kind of earnest, but there is something specific about theater in its purity - the fact that stories have been told around campfires since we have been able to stand up and talk, and being in a room with people, I think I miss it particularly right now because there is no theater and I haven't been to theater. We were talking with friends this weekend about how much we miss it. There's something so special about being in that space and about sharing the same pheromones and atmosphere in the room; you know when something changes and theatre is all about that and manipulating that atmosphere, so whether you're in the audience or the play there is just this special feeling. Also my training was in theater - I started in theater and only did theater in the beginning and I was desperate to do film. That's just the way life works, I did some telly and film and then I was desperate to get back to the theater - that's often the way.
BA: So as a musician something that happens sometimes "live" is that you forget the lyrics.
JN: Yes of course, I can imagine this is surely something that happens sometimes.
BA: So what happens in the theater when that line is just not coming? What do you do?
JN: Oh it actually happens all the time in theater. They are the most memorable times because you do a play night after night. I did a play once hundred of times, I did an eight month run and they can start to merge into one when you do eight shows a week, so the ones that stand out are the ones where something unprepared happens - a line is lost or the theater has a black out. Often something happens to members of the audience - I did a play called Bug by the writer Tracey Letts in a tiny little disused art school called St. Martins, just before it got knocked down. This brilliant young entrepreneurial producer took over this space and we stuffed 100 people in there. It was this really dark twisted play about a man and woman who fall in love amidst a swarm of bugs and get eaten. The play is insane and every night I'd gouge out my skin, pull teeth out and each week we'd have members of the audience who you'd hear groaning and fall - we'd hear them hit the deck and faint.
BA: Oh no!
JN: It was so hot in there too and the nature of the work was so grim and every night when someone fainted they'd have to be carried out, so we'd stop mid scene and all you can do is pause, stop on the line and wait and wait. It was such a bizarre feeling because obviously the magic of the story is then suspended, but you can't break that fourth wall and sometimes the most amazing things happen - I am sure when you miss a line, is it not the same...
BA: I just make up something new...
JN: Oh really? Have people ever noticed when this happened?
BA: Oh yeah the real fans don't miss anything...
JN: In theatre you can fuck up royally and miss a line - I've had times when I've completely corpsed, you know when you get the giggles? It is one of those horrible bitter sweet feelings where it is like a drug and you savor it, but you know it's damaging to the play, and in a way it makes you feel guilty as you know there's people out there that have paid a ton of money to see it.
BA: Yeah they don't want to see you giggling.
JN: Yeah it's indulgent, but it's so fun and I've had nights where you get into a routine and you get a bit sloppy on a Friday night, I am screaming with laughter and the scene has to stop, I'm gulping the words down and you think it's the most embarrassing thing in the world, then you come off the stage at the end and you say, "I'm so sorry" and they say, "what to you mean? I didn't notice anything?" It is amazing what do you mean? I didn't notice anything?" It is amazing what you can get away with and they don't even bat an eyelid!
BA: So what is the strangest thing you've ever done to get into character for a part?
JN: Wow that's interesting. Well, the first thing that comes to my mind is that when I was starting and still do this sometimes, I used to just spend time in character as the character but just doing mundane things like walking around the streets or buying my groceries or whatever.
BA: So you'd go to Waitrose and you'll be in character?
JN: Yeah, I'll be in that headspace and I'll just be trying to to really understand my role, to explore what it is like to do the really mundane things as that character.
BA: That's interesting, it's cool.
JN: But the thing is, when you turn up at Waitrose and you're playing a psychopath and you're getting a chocolate bar and slamming it down onto the register, the poor lady who knows you from every other day you go in there is like, "What the hell's wrong with you today?!" So I've had a few moments like that where I've wanted to just tell them.
BA: What's been your most challenging role?
JN: I don't know, sometimes the big transformative roles are the hardest, or certainly on the surface they look like the hardest because they require the most work. You've got to prepare intensely to go and learn the accent and do a physical transformation.
BA: So which one comes to your head?
JN: My role in Happy Valley was challenging, but in a way it wasn't because it was written so beautifully and often the challenging roles are the ones that aren't very well written, but I've been very lucky and privileged to work with the best writers and directors. The role I just did in Nowhere Special was challenging because I was playing a Northern Irish guy.
BA: How is your Northern Irish accent?
JN: Yeah that was a hard one to learn and get a good grasp of... are you putting me on the spot?
BA: Yeah go on, can you say "Can you play that acoustic Bryan?"
JN: Acoustic is actually a word which is hard to say in a Northern Irish [in accent] "I play John and he's a window cleaner from Belfast".
BA: [in accent] That's fucking grand.
JN: [still in accent] "It took time so it did".
BA: That's very good. I've seen you dabble on Instagram with analogue photography is this something that is a passion?
JN: Yeah you know it is one of those things that I find intriguing - I think that's the thing about myself, I definitely love to try everything and experience new things...
BA: What kind of camera do you have is it a 35?
JN: No, it is a Nikon FN3 - I'm a fair weather photographer but I've always had a camera - I had a digital SLR and then I had an Irwin 10. I also have an old refurbished polaroid camera which I love.
BA: Yeah they're fun I used to shoot everything on a polaroid.
JN: Yes they are definitely back, but in a slightly different, more modern way.
BA: I can't go back now.
JN: I love it though one thing I would definitely say about myself is "a jack of all trades master of none"! I love having a go at different things such as drawing which I dabbled into during the lockdown. It was something that I've always wanted to try and I loved it. I really got into it and then the lockdown ends... I am not obsessive about hobbies, but I definitely love to try and have a go.
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"I love it though one thing I would definitely say about myself is "a jack of all trades master of none"! I love having a go at different things such as drawing which I dabbled into during the lockdown."
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BA: So Covid-19 has thrown some challenges at a range of industries and of course it's having a huge effect on cinema. What do ou feel in the future of cinema?
JN: Everyone is trying to predict what the playing field will look like I think, from an economic perspective and a creative perspective. People are talking about the big streamers buying out the theaters so they can put their production into theaters, which is going to be interesting. Obviously indy film has taken a bit of a battering recently and there's less money and investment as people who do have the money want to see a return, so they pump it into the big studios and franchises like Marvel which obviously has a huge effect on cinema, but I hope that there will always be a space for independent films and filmmakers in whatever capacity. Of course it is all about money and when there's less money there's less films being made, but there is never going to be a lack of storytellers so I hold hope that whilst the form and the medium will change and evolve and will have to be adaptable - again, the pure essence of what is to tell stories will always be part of that.
BA: It's got to be.
JN: It's the same with music - streaming services like Spotify have changes that industry as well, it effects everything surrounding the industry, live gigging all changes but the pure form doesn't.
BA: So how does it change the way you work when the script is based on a real character of event for example Mr. Jones?
JN: It changes because you have a accountability to the person themselves, so you are expected, understandably so, to go and research that person and find as much as you can - video footage, photographs, diary entries, accounts, whatever it might be to inform you, because you have a responsibility whether they are alive or not, to their family to honor their memory. The weird thing is, there are two forms of that type of performance and often you can end up falling into a type of mimicry which I think is dangerous, really what you are trying to find is the soul of that person. What I try and do is to do all the research I can, and then on the first day of filming you throw it all away and you go instinctively and find the connection you have with that person. It won't be the perfect impression, but honoring their memory is almost done better if you find their soul rather than mimicking their ticks, accent and all that stuff.
BA: So here's a question when did you first consider acting? How old were you? Was it at school?
JN: It was weird, my family aren't actors, I don't know where it came from, but I remember when I was like really young, I was in the first year at school and they did the nativity and I ended up playing Joseph and I don't know why. I was obviously this precocious little shit, but I couldn't see my parents and I was crying my eyes out, but yeah it's just there I guess, it's a bit like, again I don't want to lay claim, but being musical just having that instinct and you need somewhere to process that and use it, same with theater I just had the bug all the way from school. I was obsessed with theater, I would do Youth Theater in the summer holidays.
BA: And your parents were completely confused by that?
JN: Baffled and completely confused. They had no idea about where my passion for acting came from. Nevertheless they loved it and they supported it. Every holiday I'd be doing Youth Theater and doing work experience in local theaters.
BA: What about your parents what did they do?
JN: They have both retired now. Before that, but they were university college lecturers.
BA: Interesting, which colleges?
JN: My Mum was lecturing and Leeds Metropolitan University and my Dad was at the University of Hull.
BA: So you're actually Northern!
JN: I was born in London, but I grew up North. Actually ever since my Dad retired, he comes on every production for just a day as a supporting actor.
BA: No way - do you get him the job?
JN: Yeah, every time.
BA: This is the best, good for you. How have you changed since you graduated from RADA?
JN: I definitely feel like I am more aware of the business of it all, maybe partly because I am getting older but also because I am now taking on the role as a producer, which is a new skill set and becoming aware of the mechanism behind making movies. I am increasingly aware of the money and the Instagram side of things.
BA: You read theology - how do you feel this helps you relate to the character you play?
JN: I mean I guess it's not so much the theology side, more just having had the luck to do a degree at Cambridge University. It's instinct, being an actor is about being inquisitive and having a hunger for information and new experiences. Going and doing three years of academia where you're encouraged to go on this journey of self-nourishment, nourishing the mind, opening all those doors and allowing yourself to ask as many questions as you possibly can, all that does is fuel this innate, inquisitive empathy.
BA: Did you feel after you got your degree you'd answered all those questions?
JN: Funnily enough I felt more confused by the end of it. I definitely went into theology looking for some kind of answers. I mean I went to a very religious school. It was Catholic - we prayed every day, we were heavily imbued with the institutionalized religious side of it all and I left confused and affected by that. I did a theology degree thinking it might answer some questions and I got confused even more, but in a wonderful way - it allowed me to really experience how much there is to know and find out.
BA: Any long term goals? Anything that extends beyond acting?
JN: Yes I am full of admiration for someone like yourself who I guess is a musician by trade, but you've done everything and keep opening new doors and I think that's very admirable and I would like to build the production company maybe get behind the camera and direct myself, but obviously that's in film. I guess the lockdown made me reflect a lot - I was lucky enough to have a garden, I have a small patio in Peckham so I was able to grow the obligatory tomatoes. I baked banana bread and slowed my life down. I realized, like a lot of other people, not that I was an adrenaline junky and jumping off buildings, but I have an addiction to the race. I think what I've learnt recently is that I want to make a real concerted effort to complement the fast furious rat race, and the love I have for the industry and the career I am building, with a calmer, quieter side. I'm from the countryside, I want to go and grow some vegetables - do you know what I mean?
BA: Like Voltaire when he says in Candide, in the end, a man must cultivate his garden.
JN: That's true. In a way, we were all given a taste of what that was like, to not have every distraction constantly pulling you away, to be able to slow down and reflect. I definitely need to be outside and need nature and living in London, I can forget that.
BA: For McMafia, you mentioned you did a lot of research - is research something that plays an important role in all your jobs?
JN: I mean you can, and of actors do start the roles without much research. I think the older you get, the more you realize you probably can get away with doing less, but I also think you aren't doing yourself any harm and you are probably going to be doing yourself a favor by doing the research. Often, you do the work and read all the books and then you discard it all when you do the performance, but it is also just really interesting you get two to three months before you start a job to go to the library and learn something completely new. Every single job is a new subject matter, a new history or country.
BA: Ok so what about places you've acted before - is there a place that would be a stand out - a country or a theater?
JN: Wen we recently did a TV show production of War and Peace with Paul Dano and Lily James, we got to shoot a lot of that in St. Petersburg, Lithuania and Latvia. We were completely immersed in St. Petersburg, going and seeing the Maly Theater Company, meeting Lev Dodin, who is this sort of theater great and him telling me about Andrei Bolkonsky, who was the incredible literary hero of Russia. That was great because I never read War and Peace, I didn't really know much about it.
BA: I've got a copy if you want it?
JN: I definitely don't, thank you very much for offering, but I think you should definitely have a read.
BA: So in the past few years, you've had a great success - how do you keep down to earth - friends, family?
JN: Yeah it's definitely about the friends and the company you keep, and that's people who have known me for a very long time. There's a risk that people have an ulterior motive to be your friend, but that could happen in any walk of life as the world is full of dubious characters. I feel very lucky because my family are not from the industry, never have been, they don't feel phased by it and I have amazing friends from my days at the university and drama school.
BA: So what is the best thing to come from acting so far? Any surprises?
JN: What is the best thing to come from it? I guess going back to the people, who you meet along the way - all the nuts characters. The travel, I love travelling. I love seeing the world and to have the opportunity to do that through my work is amazing. Being in St. Petersburg and being invited to their first night of The Cherry Orchard and in the interval meeting the cast and just thinking, "how the fuck did I end up backstage in this theater, meeting this man?" So I guess the adventure is what I love. When I was at university I travelled a lot and I swore to myself to keep going and you can do that at age 18 or 19 you can tell yourself "I am going to spend my life on the road".
BA: That's me.
JN: I know, you never leave it do you? You find a way and then you realize that you are very lucky you've got this job that allows you to carry on this heady childish adventurous pursuit, and you still earn a living - I guess that's what I am forever grateful for.
BA: And how do you look after yourself?
JN: Ha, I do look after myself most of the time. This weekend we had a dinner party and we ended up dancing for the first time since the lockdown started, then suddenly it was three in the morning and I'm like "shit I've got to to to bed I've got a shoot on Monday morning!" [Laughs] but I keep fit - I cycle everywhere, I commute everywhere in London on a bike and I exercise. I am one of those people for whom exercise isn't a chore, I'm just naturally very active and if I don't have a walk or a run or do any physical activity my body just gets frustrated.
BA: Has acting taught you anything about yourself?
JN: I mean, yeah, besides everything? Okay I mean not literally everything - it's just very difficult to quantify it.
BA: What has it taught you? I guess it taught you to follow your instincts - and you were right...
JN: Yeah it definitely taught me that and to have courage. I remember those early days when people looked at you in a certain slightly condescending way saying "oh that's sweet you want to be an actor" and despite all this going against all the odds, coming out the other end, making a career for yourself out of it and being fulfilled and happy.
BA: When I think about what music bought me, I'm glad I trusted my instinct - as it was hard to break in, but I got in - maybe that's different for you?
JN: No I did, I followed my instincts, trusted my gut and I got there. I had good people around me who allowed me to take that risk, I had people gently patting me on the head saying "you'll grow out of it" but I very rarely came up against anyone saying "don't do it", and I'm very grateful for my family. What I learned is that the people you meet and the roles you play, in a wonderful way allow you an understanding of the weird complexities of human beings and you become incredibly forgiving and empathetic as a result. You can play wonderful, happy, inspirational leaders and artists, but you also play the dark fucked up characters who are on the fringes of society, and when you are in their headspace, you learn to love the weirdos and the freaks which is also wonderful.
BA: Well, other than that, how do you feel about Christmas trees now?
JN: Norwegian fir is my favourite! [Laughs]
BA: Good to know - Thanks James!
JN: No worries.
